diff --git a/.importlinter b/.importlinter
index e510ee91f..087035ca9 100644
--- a/.importlinter
+++ b/.importlinter
@@ -29,17 +29,16 @@ ignore_imports =
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.body.carcontroller -> openpilot.selfdrive.controls.lib.pid
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.tests.test_docs -> openpilot.common.basedir
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.docs -> openpilot.common.basedir
+
     # car interface will not filter the speed
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces -> openpilot.common.simple_kalman
+
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.gm.interface -> openpilot.common.basedir
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces -> openpilot.common.basedir
-    # these two will still live in openpilot, but require some modification
+
+    # params will need to move to new openpilot files that just call car files
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions -> openpilot.common.params
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.ecu_addrs -> openpilot.common.params
-    # requires generic CAN send/receive functions
-    openpilot.selfdrive.car.ecu_addrs -> openpilot.selfdrive.pandad
-    openpilot.selfdrive.car.isotp_parallel_query -> openpilot.selfdrive.pandad
-    openpilot.selfdrive.car.tests.test_fw_fingerprint -> openpilot.selfdrive.pandad
 
     # these are okay
     openpilot.selfdrive.car.card -> openpilot.common.swaglog
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/can_definitions.py b/selfdrive/car/can_definitions.py
index aef9aa0c1..2dba7f26a 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/can_definitions.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/can_definitions.py
@@ -1,7 +1,15 @@
-from typing import NamedTuple
+from collections.abc import Callable
+from typing import NamedTuple, Protocol
 
 
 class CanData(NamedTuple):
   address: int
   dat: bytes
   src: int
+
+
+CanSendCallable = Callable[[list[CanData]], None]
+
+
+class CanRecvCallable(Protocol):
+  def __call__(self, wait_for_one: bool = False) -> list[list[CanData]]: ...
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py b/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
index 2604753eb..d2345f1a0 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
@@ -1,15 +1,14 @@
 import os
 import time
-from collections.abc import Callable
 
 from cereal import car
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import carlog
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import get_interface_attr
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fingerprints import eliminate_incompatible_cars, all_legacy_fingerprint_cars
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.vin import get_vin, is_valid_vin, VIN_UNKNOWN
-from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions import get_fw_versions_ordered, get_present_ecus, match_fw_to_car
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions import ObdCallback, get_fw_versions_ordered, get_present_ecus, match_fw_to_car
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.mock.values import CAR as MOCK
-import cereal.messaging as messaging
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import gen_empty_fingerprint
 
 FRAME_FINGERPRINT = 100  # 1s
@@ -41,7 +40,7 @@ interface_names = _get_interface_names()
 interfaces = load_interfaces(interface_names)
 
 
-def can_fingerprint(can_recv: Callable) -> tuple[str | None, dict[int, dict]]:
+def can_fingerprint(can_recv: CanRecvCallable) -> tuple[str | None, dict[int, dict]]:
   finger = gen_empty_fingerprint()
   candidate_cars = {i: all_legacy_fingerprint_cars() for i in [0, 1]}  # attempt fingerprint on both bus 0 and 1
   frame = 0
@@ -49,10 +48,10 @@ def can_fingerprint(can_recv: Callable) -> tuple[str | None, dict[int, dict]]:
   done = False
 
   while not done:
-    # can_recv() may return zero or multiple packets, so we increment frame for each one we receive
-    can_packets = can_recv()
+    # can_recv(wait_for_one=True) may return zero or multiple packets, so we increment frame for each one we receive
+    can_packets = can_recv(wait_for_one=True)
     for can_packet in can_packets:
-      for can in can_packet.can:
+      for can in can_packet:
         # The fingerprint dict is generated for all buses, this way the car interface
         # can use it to detect a (valid) multipanda setup and initialize accordingly
         if can.src < 128:
@@ -83,7 +82,7 @@ def can_fingerprint(can_recv: Callable) -> tuple[str | None, dict[int, dict]]:
 
 
 # **** for use live only ****
-def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas, cached_params_raw):
+def fingerprint(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, num_pandas: int, cached_params_raw: bytes | None):
   fixed_fingerprint = os.environ.get('FINGERPRINT', "")
   skip_fw_query = os.environ.get('SKIP_FW_QUERY', False)
   disable_fw_cache = os.environ.get('DISABLE_FW_CACHE', False)
@@ -109,9 +108,9 @@ def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas, cached_params
       # NOTE: this takes ~0.1s and is relied on to allow sendcan subscriber to connect in time
       set_obd_multiplexing(True)
       # VIN query only reliably works through OBDII
-      vin_rx_addr, vin_rx_bus, vin = get_vin(logcan, sendcan, (0, 1))
-      ecu_rx_addrs = get_present_ecus(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas=num_pandas)
-      car_fw = get_fw_versions_ordered(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, vin, ecu_rx_addrs, num_pandas=num_pandas)
+      vin_rx_addr, vin_rx_bus, vin = get_vin(can_recv, can_send, (0, 1))
+      ecu_rx_addrs = get_present_ecus(can_recv, can_send, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas=num_pandas)
+      car_fw = get_fw_versions_ordered(can_recv, can_send, set_obd_multiplexing, vin, ecu_rx_addrs, num_pandas=num_pandas)
       cached = False
 
     exact_fw_match, fw_candidates = match_fw_to_car(car_fw, vin)
@@ -132,8 +131,8 @@ def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas, cached_params
 
   # CAN fingerprint
   # drain CAN socket so we get the latest messages
-  messaging.drain_sock_raw(logcan)
-  car_fingerprint, finger = can_fingerprint(lambda: messaging.drain_sock(logcan, wait_for_one=True))
+  can_recv()
+  car_fingerprint, finger = can_fingerprint(can_recv)
 
   exact_match = True
   source = car.CarParams.FingerprintSource.can
@@ -160,8 +159,9 @@ def get_car_interface(CP):
   return CarInterface(CP, CarController, CarState)
 
 
-def get_car(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, experimental_long_allowed, num_pandas=1, cached_params=None):
-  candidate, fingerprints, vin, car_fw, source, exact_match = fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas, cached_params)
+def get_car(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, experimental_long_allowed: bool,
+            num_pandas: int = 1, cached_params: bytes | None = None):
+  candidate, fingerprints, vin, car_fw, source, exact_match = fingerprint(can_recv, can_send, set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas, cached_params)
 
   if candidate is None:
     carlog.error({"event": "car doesn't match any fingerprints", "fingerprints": repr(fingerprints)})
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/card.py b/selfdrive/car/card.py
index d00998acb..4919be30c 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/card.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/card.py
@@ -14,6 +14,8 @@ from openpilot.common.swaglog import cloudlog, ForwardingHandler
 
 from openpilot.selfdrive.pandad import can_capnp_to_list, can_list_to_can_capnp
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, carlog
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData, CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions import ObdCallback
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.car_helpers import get_car
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 from openpilot.selfdrive.controls.lib.events import Events
@@ -26,7 +28,7 @@ EventName = car.CarEvent.EventName
 carlog.addHandler(ForwardingHandler(cloudlog))
 
 
-def obd_callback(params: Params):
+def obd_callback(params: Params) -> ObdCallback:
   def set_obd_multiplexing(obd_multiplexing: bool):
     if params.get_bool("ObdMultiplexingEnabled") != obd_multiplexing:
       cloudlog.warning(f"Setting OBD multiplexing to {obd_multiplexing}")
@@ -37,10 +39,28 @@ def obd_callback(params: Params):
   return set_obd_multiplexing
 
 
+def can_comm_callbacks(logcan: messaging.SubSocket, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket) -> tuple[CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable]:
+  def can_recv(wait_for_one: bool = False) -> list[list[CanData]]:
+    """
+    wait_for_one: wait the normal logcan socket timeout for a CAN packet, may return empty list if nothing comes
+
+    Returns: CAN packets comprised of CanData objects for easy access
+    """
+    ret = []
+    for can in messaging.drain_sock(logcan, wait_for_one=wait_for_one):
+      ret.append([CanData(msg.address, msg.dat, msg.src) for msg in can.can])
+    return ret
+
+  def can_send(msgs: list[CanData]) -> None:
+    sendcan.send(can_list_to_can_capnp(msgs, msgtype='sendcan'))
+
+  return can_recv, can_send
+
+
 class Car:
   CI: CarInterfaceBase
 
-  def __init__(self, CI=None):
+  def __init__(self, CI=None) -> None:
     self.can_sock = messaging.sub_sock('can', timeout=20)
     self.sm = messaging.SubMaster(['pandaStates', 'carControl', 'onroadEvents'])
     self.pm = messaging.PubMaster(['sendcan', 'carState', 'carParams', 'carOutput'])
@@ -55,6 +75,8 @@ class Car:
 
     self.params = Params()
 
+    self.can_callbacks = can_comm_callbacks(self.can_sock, self.pm.sock['sendcan'])
+
     if CI is None:
       # wait for one pandaState and one CAN packet
       print("Waiting for CAN messages...")
@@ -66,7 +88,7 @@ class Car:
       experimental_long_allowed = self.params.get_bool("ExperimentalLongitudinalEnabled")
       num_pandas = len(messaging.recv_one_retry(self.sm.sock['pandaStates']).pandaStates)
       cached_params = self.params.get("CarParamsCache")
-      self.CI = get_car(self.can_sock, self.pm.sock['sendcan'], obd_callback(self.params), experimental_long_allowed, num_pandas, cached_params)
+      self.CI = get_car(*self.can_callbacks, obd_callback(self.params), experimental_long_allowed, num_pandas, cached_params)
       self.CP = self.CI.CP
 
       # continue onto next fingerprinting step in pandad
@@ -169,7 +191,7 @@ class Car:
     if not self.initialized_prev:
       # Initialize CarInterface, once controls are ready
       # TODO: this can make us miss at least a few cycles when doing an ECU knockout
-      self.CI.init(self.CP, self.can_sock, self.pm.sock['sendcan'])
+      self.CI.init(self.CP, *self.can_callbacks)
       # signal pandad to switch to car safety mode
       self.params.put_bool_nonblocking("ControlsReady", True)
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/disable_ecu.py b/selfdrive/car/disable_ecu.py
index 5229b519a..bbf5b4c9f 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/disable_ecu.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/disable_ecu.py
@@ -8,7 +8,7 @@ EXT_DIAG_RESPONSE = b'\x50\x03'
 COM_CONT_RESPONSE = b''
 
 
-def disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=0, addr=0x7d0, sub_addr=None, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01', timeout=0.1, retry=10, debug=False):
+def disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=0, addr=0x7d0, sub_addr=None, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01', timeout=0.1, retry=10, debug=False):
   """Silence an ECU by disabling sending and receiving messages using UDS 0x28.
   The ECU will stay silent as long as openpilot keeps sending Tester Present.
 
@@ -18,12 +18,12 @@ def disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=0, addr=0x7d0, sub_addr=None, com_cont_req=
 
   for i in range(retry):
     try:
-      query = IsoTpParallelQuery(sendcan, logcan, bus, [(addr, sub_addr)], [EXT_DIAG_REQUEST], [EXT_DIAG_RESPONSE], debug=debug)
+      query = IsoTpParallelQuery(can_send, can_recv, bus, [(addr, sub_addr)], [EXT_DIAG_REQUEST], [EXT_DIAG_RESPONSE], debug=debug)
 
       for _, _ in query.get_data(timeout).items():
         carlog.warning("communication control disable tx/rx ...")
 
-        query = IsoTpParallelQuery(sendcan, logcan, bus, [(addr, sub_addr)], [com_cont_req], [COM_CONT_RESPONSE], debug=debug)
+        query = IsoTpParallelQuery(can_send, can_recv, bus, [(addr, sub_addr)], [com_cont_req], [COM_CONT_RESPONSE], debug=debug)
         query.get_data(0)
 
         carlog.warning("ecu disabled")
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/ecu_addrs.py b/selfdrive/car/ecu_addrs.py
index e36c1dc98..336d0d554 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/ecu_addrs.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/ecu_addrs.py
@@ -2,11 +2,10 @@
 import capnp
 import time
 
-import cereal.messaging as messaging
 from panda.python.uds import SERVICE_TYPE
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import make_tester_present_msg, carlog
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_query_definitions import EcuAddrBusType
-from openpilot.selfdrive.pandad import can_list_to_can_capnp
 
 
 def _is_tester_present_response(msg: capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructReader, subaddr: int = None) -> bool:
@@ -23,26 +22,26 @@ def _is_tester_present_response(msg: capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructReader, subad
   return False
 
 
-def _get_all_ecu_addrs(logcan: messaging.SubSocket, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket, bus: int, timeout: float = 1, debug: bool = True) -> set[EcuAddrBusType]:
+def _get_all_ecu_addrs(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, bus: int, timeout: float = 1, debug: bool = True) -> set[EcuAddrBusType]:
   addr_list = [0x700 + i for i in range(256)] + [0x18da00f1 + (i << 8) for i in range(256)]
   queries: set[EcuAddrBusType] = {(addr, None, bus) for addr in addr_list}
   responses = queries
-  return get_ecu_addrs(logcan, sendcan, queries, responses, timeout=timeout, debug=debug)
+  return get_ecu_addrs(can_recv, can_send, queries, responses, timeout=timeout, debug=debug)
 
 
-def get_ecu_addrs(logcan: messaging.SubSocket, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket, queries: set[EcuAddrBusType],
+def get_ecu_addrs(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, queries: set[EcuAddrBusType],
                   responses: set[EcuAddrBusType], timeout: float = 1, debug: bool = False) -> set[EcuAddrBusType]:
   ecu_responses: set[EcuAddrBusType] = set()  # set((addr, subaddr, bus),)
   try:
     msgs = [make_tester_present_msg(addr, bus, subaddr) for addr, subaddr, bus in queries]
 
-    messaging.drain_sock_raw(logcan)
-    sendcan.send(can_list_to_can_capnp(msgs, msgtype='sendcan'))
+    can_recv()
+    can_send(msgs)
     start_time = time.monotonic()
     while time.monotonic() - start_time < timeout:
-      can_packets = messaging.drain_sock(logcan, wait_for_one=True)
+      can_packets = can_recv(wait_for_one=True)
       for packet in can_packets:
-        for msg in packet.can:
+        for msg in packet:
           if not len(msg.dat):
             carlog.warning("ECU addr scan: skipping empty remote frame")
             continue
@@ -61,6 +60,7 @@ def get_ecu_addrs(logcan: messaging.SubSocket, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket, que
 
 if __name__ == "__main__":
   import argparse
+  import cereal.messaging as messaging
   from openpilot.common.params import Params
   from openpilot.selfdrive.car.card import obd_callback
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/fw_versions.py b/selfdrive/car/fw_versions.py
index 87f5f3def..7cee14bfb 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/fw_versions.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/fw_versions.py
@@ -11,6 +11,7 @@ from cereal import car
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import carlog
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.ecu_addrs import get_ecu_addrs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fingerprints import FW_VERSIONS
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_query_definitions import AddrType, EcuAddrBusType, FwQueryConfig, LiveFwVersions, OfflineFwVersions
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import get_interface_attr
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.isotp_parallel_query import IsoTpParallelQuery
@@ -171,7 +172,7 @@ def match_fw_to_car(fw_versions: list[capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder], vi
   return True, set()
 
 
-def get_present_ecus(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, num_pandas: int = 1) -> set[EcuAddrBusType]:
+def get_present_ecus(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, num_pandas: int = 1) -> set[EcuAddrBusType]:
   # queries are split by OBD multiplexing mode
   queries: dict[bool, list[list[EcuAddrBusType]]] = {True: [], False: []}
   parallel_queries: dict[bool, list[EcuAddrBusType]] = {True: [], False: []}
@@ -205,7 +206,7 @@ def get_present_ecus(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, num_pan
   for obd_multiplexing in queries:
     set_obd_multiplexing(obd_multiplexing)
     for query in queries[obd_multiplexing]:
-      ecu_responses.update(get_ecu_addrs(logcan, sendcan, set(query), responses, timeout=0.1))
+      ecu_responses.update(get_ecu_addrs(can_recv, can_send, set(query), responses, timeout=0.1))
   return ecu_responses
 
 
@@ -227,8 +228,9 @@ def get_brand_ecu_matches(ecu_rx_addrs: set[EcuAddrBusType]) -> dict[str, set[Ad
   return brand_matches
 
 
-def get_fw_versions_ordered(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, vin: str, ecu_rx_addrs: set[EcuAddrBusType], timeout: float = 0.1,
-                            num_pandas: int = 1, debug: bool = False, progress: bool = False) -> list[capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder]:
+def get_fw_versions_ordered(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, vin: str,
+                            ecu_rx_addrs: set[EcuAddrBusType], timeout: float = 0.1, num_pandas: int = 1, debug: bool = False,
+                            progress: bool = False) -> list[capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder]:
   """Queries for FW versions ordering brands by likelihood, breaks when exact match is found"""
 
   all_car_fw = []
@@ -239,7 +241,8 @@ def get_fw_versions_ordered(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback,
     if not len(brand_matches[brand]):
       continue
 
-    car_fw = get_fw_versions(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing, query_brand=brand, timeout=timeout, num_pandas=num_pandas, debug=debug, progress=progress)
+    car_fw = get_fw_versions(can_recv, can_send, set_obd_multiplexing, query_brand=brand, timeout=timeout, num_pandas=num_pandas, debug=debug,
+                             progress=progress)
     all_car_fw.extend(car_fw)
 
     # If there is a match using this brand's FW alone, finish querying early
@@ -250,8 +253,9 @@ def get_fw_versions_ordered(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback,
   return all_car_fw
 
 
-def get_fw_versions(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, query_brand: str = None, extra: OfflineFwVersions = None, timeout: float = 0.1,
-                    num_pandas: int = 1, debug: bool = False, progress: bool = False) -> list[capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder]:
+def get_fw_versions(can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, query_brand: str = None,
+                    extra: OfflineFwVersions = None, timeout: float = 0.1, num_pandas: int = 1, debug: bool = False,
+                    progress: bool = False) -> list[capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder]:
   versions = VERSIONS.copy()
 
   if query_brand is not None:
@@ -301,7 +305,7 @@ def get_fw_versions(logcan, sendcan, set_obd_multiplexing: ObdCallback, query_br
                          (len(r.whitelist_ecus) == 0 or ecu_types[(b, a, s)] in r.whitelist_ecus)]
 
           if query_addrs:
-            query = IsoTpParallelQuery(sendcan, logcan, r.bus, query_addrs, r.request, r.response, r.rx_offset, debug=debug)
+            query = IsoTpParallelQuery(can_send, can_recv, r.bus, query_addrs, r.request, r.response, r.rx_offset, debug=debug)
             for (tx_addr, sub_addr), version in query.get_data(timeout).items():
               f = car.CarParams.CarFw.new_message()
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
index 4c9f9674d..3eefd8f86 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
@@ -217,9 +217,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   @staticmethod
-  def init(CP, logcan, sendcan):
+  def init(CP, can_recv, can_send):
     if CP.carFingerprint in (HONDA_BOSCH - HONDA_BOSCH_RADARLESS) and CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
-      disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=1, addr=0x18DAB0F1, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x03')
+      disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=1, addr=0x18DAB0F1, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x03')
 
   # returns a car.CarState
   def _update(self, c):
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
index ecedf3fd7..9bb8e7ecf 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
@@ -139,16 +139,16 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   @staticmethod
-  def init(CP, logcan, sendcan):
+  def init(CP, can_recv, can_send):
     if CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl and not (CP.flags & HyundaiFlags.CANFD_CAMERA_SCC.value):
       addr, bus = 0x7d0, 0
       if CP.flags & HyundaiFlags.CANFD_HDA2.value:
         addr, bus = 0x730, CanBus(CP).ECAN
-      disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=bus, addr=addr, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01')
+      disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=bus, addr=addr, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01')
 
     # for blinkers
     if CP.flags & HyundaiFlags.ENABLE_BLINKERS:
-      disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=CanBus(CP).ECAN, addr=0x7B1, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01')
+      disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=CanBus(CP).ECAN, addr=0x7B1, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01')
 
   def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
index 029aade63..4e434ec38 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
@@ -12,7 +12,7 @@ from cereal import car
 from openpilot.common.basedir import BASEDIR
 from openpilot.common.simple_kalman import KF1D, get_kalman_gain
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, apply_hysteresis, gen_empty_fingerprint, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, get_friction, STD_CARGO_KG
-from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData, CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.conversions import Conversions as CV
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.helpers import clip
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.values import PLATFORMS
@@ -155,7 +155,7 @@ class CarInterfaceBase(ABC):
     raise NotImplementedError
 
   @staticmethod
-  def init(CP, logcan, sendcan):
+  def init(CP: car.CarParams, can_recv: CanRecvCallable, can_send: CanSendCallable):
     pass
 
   @staticmethod
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/isotp_parallel_query.py b/selfdrive/car/isotp_parallel_query.py
index c6bf73f7b..8ec0a340e 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/isotp_parallel_query.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/isotp_parallel_query.py
@@ -2,20 +2,18 @@ import time
 from collections import defaultdict
 from functools import partial
 
-import cereal.messaging as messaging
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import carlog
-from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData, CanRecvCallable, CanSendCallable
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_query_definitions import AddrType
-from openpilot.selfdrive.pandad import can_list_to_can_capnp
 from panda.python.uds import CanClient, IsoTpMessage, FUNCTIONAL_ADDRS, get_rx_addr_for_tx_addr
 
 
 class IsoTpParallelQuery:
-  def __init__(self, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket, logcan: messaging.SubSocket, bus: int, addrs: list[int] | list[AddrType],
+  def __init__(self, can_send: CanSendCallable, can_recv: CanRecvCallable, bus: int, addrs: list[int] | list[AddrType],
                request: list[bytes], response: list[bytes], response_offset: int = 0x8,
                functional_addrs: list[int] = None, debug: bool = False, response_pending_timeout: float = 10) -> None:
-    self.sendcan = sendcan
-    self.logcan = logcan
+    self.can_send = can_send
+    self.can_recv = can_recv
     self.bus = bus
     self.request = request
     self.response = response
@@ -32,17 +30,17 @@ class IsoTpParallelQuery:
 
   def rx(self) -> None:
     """Drain can socket and sort messages into buffers based on address"""
-    can_packets = messaging.drain_sock(self.logcan, wait_for_one=True)
+    can_packets = self.can_recv(wait_for_one=True)
 
     for packet in can_packets:
-      for msg in packet.can:
+      for msg in packet:
         if msg.src == self.bus and msg.address in self.msg_addrs.values():
           self.msg_buffer[msg.address].append(CanData(msg.address, msg.dat, msg.src))
 
-  def _can_tx(self, tx_addr, dat, bus):
+  def _can_tx(self, tx_addr: int, dat: bytes, bus: int):
     """Helper function to send single message"""
-    msg = [tx_addr, dat, bus]
-    self.sendcan.send(can_list_to_can_capnp([msg], msgtype='sendcan'))
+    msg = CanData(tx_addr, dat, bus)
+    self.can_send([msg])
 
   def _can_rx(self, addr, sub_addr=None):
     """Helper function to retrieve message with specified address and subadress from buffer"""
@@ -63,8 +61,8 @@ class IsoTpParallelQuery:
     self.msg_buffer[addr] = keep_msgs
     return msgs
 
-  def _drain_rx(self):
-    messaging.drain_sock_raw(self.logcan)
+  def _drain_rx(self) -> None:
+    self.can_recv()
     self.msg_buffer = defaultdict(list)
 
   def _create_isotp_msg(self, tx_addr: int, sub_addr: int | None, rx_addr: int):
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
index cb0093437..0ea71e812 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
@@ -106,6 +106,6 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   @staticmethod
-  def init(CP, logcan, sendcan):
+  def init(CP, can_recv, can_send):
     if CP.flags & SubaruFlags.DISABLE_EYESIGHT:
-      disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=2, addr=GLOBAL_ES_ADDR, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x03\x01')
+      disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=2, addr=GLOBAL_ES_ADDR, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x03\x01')
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_can_fingerprint.py b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_can_fingerprint.py
index 01033f7b3..e28b2fe3b 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_can_fingerprint.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_can_fingerprint.py
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 from parameterized import parameterized
 
-from cereal import log, messaging
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.car_helpers import FRAME_FINGERPRINT, can_fingerprint
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fingerprints import _FINGERPRINTS as FINGERPRINTS
 
@@ -11,13 +11,11 @@ class TestCanFingerprint:
     """Tests online fingerprinting function on offline fingerprints"""
 
     for fingerprint in fingerprints:  # can have multiple fingerprints for each platform
-      can = messaging.new_message('can', 1)
-      can.can = [log.CanData(address=address, dat=b'\x00' * length, src=src)
-                 for address, length in fingerprint.items() for src in (0, 1)]
+      can = [CanData(address=address, dat=b'\x00' * length, src=src)
+             for address, length in fingerprint.items() for src in (0, 1)]
 
       fingerprint_iter = iter([can])
-      empty_can = messaging.new_message('can', 0)
-      car_fingerprint, finger = can_fingerprint(lambda: [next(fingerprint_iter, empty_can)])  # noqa: B023
+      car_fingerprint, finger = can_fingerprint(lambda **kwargs: [next(fingerprint_iter, [])])  # noqa: B023
 
       assert car_fingerprint == car_model
       assert finger[0] == fingerprint
@@ -32,30 +30,27 @@ class TestCanFingerprint:
     cases = []
 
     # case 1 - one match, make sure we keep going for 100 frames
-    can = messaging.new_message('can', 1)
-    can.can = [log.CanData(address=address, dat=b'\x00' * length, src=src)
-               for address, length in fingerprint.items() for src in (0, 1)]
+    can = [CanData(address=address, dat=b'\x00' * length, src=src)
+           for address, length in fingerprint.items() for src in (0, 1)]
     cases.append((FRAME_FINGERPRINT, car_model, can))
 
     # case 2 - no matches, make sure we keep going for 100 frames
-    can = messaging.new_message('can', 1)
-    can.can = [log.CanData(address=1, dat=b'\x00' * 1, src=src) for src in (0, 1)]  # uncommon address
+    can = [CanData(address=1, dat=b'\x00' * 1, src=src) for src in (0, 1)]  # uncommon address
     cases.append((FRAME_FINGERPRINT, None, can))
 
     # case 3 - multiple matches, make sure we keep going for 200 frames to try to eliminate some
-    can = messaging.new_message('can', 1)
-    can.can = [log.CanData(address=2016, dat=b'\x00' * 8, src=src) for src in (0, 1)]  # common address
+    can = [CanData(address=2016, dat=b'\x00' * 8, src=src) for src in (0, 1)]  # common address
     cases.append((FRAME_FINGERPRINT * 2, None, can))
 
     for expected_frames, car_model, can in cases:
       with subtests.test(expected_frames=expected_frames, car_model=car_model):
         frames = 0
 
-        def test():
+        def can_recv(**kwargs):
           nonlocal frames
           frames += 1
           return [can]  # noqa: B023
 
-        car_fingerprint, _ = can_fingerprint(test)
+        car_fingerprint, _ = can_fingerprint(can_recv)
         assert car_fingerprint == car_model
         assert frames == expected_frames + 2  # TODO: fix extra frames
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_fw_fingerprint.py b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_fw_fingerprint.py
index 9a252c743..46a432f8a 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_fw_fingerprint.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_fw_fingerprint.py
@@ -11,7 +11,6 @@ from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fingerprints import FW_VERSIONS
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions import ESSENTIAL_ECUS, FW_QUERY_CONFIGS, FUZZY_EXCLUDE_ECUS, VERSIONS, build_fw_dict, \
                                                 match_fw_to_car, get_brand_ecu_matches, get_fw_versions, get_fw_versions_ordered, get_present_ecus
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.vin import get_vin
-from openpilot.selfdrive.pandad import can_list_to_can_capnp
 
 CarFw = car.CarParams.CarFw
 Ecu = car.CarParams.Ecu
@@ -19,15 +18,6 @@ Ecu = car.CarParams.Ecu
 ECU_NAME = {v: k for k, v in Ecu.schema.enumerants.items()}
 
 
-class FakeSocket:
-  def receive(self, non_blocking=False):
-    return (can_list_to_can_capnp([CanData(random.randint(0x600, 0x800), b'\x00' * 8, 0)])
-            if random.uniform(0, 1) > 0.5 else None)
-
-  def send(self, msg):
-    pass
-
-
 class TestFwFingerprint:
   def assertFingerprints(self, candidates, expected):
     candidates = list(candidates)
@@ -214,6 +204,15 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
   current_obd_multiplexing: bool
   total_time: float
 
+  @staticmethod
+  def fake_can_send(msgs):
+    pass
+
+  @staticmethod
+  def fake_can_recv(wait_for_one: bool = False) -> list[list[CanData]]:
+    return ([[CanData(random.randint(0x600, 0x800), b'\x00' * 8, 0)]]
+            if random.uniform(0, 1) > 0.5 else [])
+
   def fake_set_obd_multiplexing(self, obd_multiplexing):
     """The 10Hz blocking params loop adds on average 50ms to the query time for each OBD multiplexing change"""
     if obd_multiplexing != self.current_obd_multiplexing:
@@ -225,7 +224,6 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
     return {}
 
   def _benchmark_brand(self, brand, num_pandas, mocker):
-    fake_socket = FakeSocket()
     self.total_time = 0
     mocker.patch("openpilot.selfdrive.car.isotp_parallel_query.IsoTpParallelQuery.get_data", self.fake_get_data)
     for _ in range(self.N):
@@ -233,7 +231,7 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
       self.current_obd_multiplexing = True
 
       t = time.perf_counter()
-      get_fw_versions(fake_socket, fake_socket, self.fake_set_obd_multiplexing, brand, num_pandas=num_pandas)
+      get_fw_versions(self.fake_can_recv, self.fake_can_send, self.fake_set_obd_multiplexing, brand, num_pandas=num_pandas)
       self.total_time += time.perf_counter() - t
 
     return self.total_time / self.N
@@ -251,12 +249,11 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
       self.total_time += timeout
       return set()
 
-    fake_socket = FakeSocket()
     self.total_time = 0.0
     mocker.patch("openpilot.selfdrive.car.fw_versions.get_ecu_addrs", fake_get_ecu_addrs)
     for _ in range(self.N):
       self.current_obd_multiplexing = True
-      get_present_ecus(fake_socket, fake_socket, self.fake_set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas=2)
+      get_present_ecus(self.fake_can_recv, self.fake_can_send, self.fake_set_obd_multiplexing, num_pandas=2)
     self._assert_timing(self.total_time / self.N, present_ecu_ref_time)
     print(f'get_present_ecus, query time={self.total_time / self.N} seconds')
 
@@ -265,7 +262,7 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
         self.total_time = 0.0
         mocker.patch("openpilot.selfdrive.car.isotp_parallel_query.IsoTpParallelQuery.get_data", self.fake_get_data)
         for _ in range(self.N):
-          get_vin(fake_socket, fake_socket, (0, 1), **args)
+          get_vin(self.fake_can_recv, self.fake_can_send, (0, 1), **args)
         self._assert_timing(self.total_time / self.N, vin_ref_times[name])
         print(f'get_vin {name} case, query time={self.total_time / self.N} seconds')
 
@@ -324,8 +321,7 @@ class TestFwFingerprintTiming:
       raise
 
     mocker.patch("openpilot.selfdrive.car.carlog.exception", fake_carlog_exception)
-    fake_socket = FakeSocket()
-    get_fw_versions_ordered(fake_socket, fake_socket, lambda obd: None, '0' * 17, set())
+    get_fw_versions_ordered(self.fake_can_recv, self.fake_can_send, lambda obd: None, '0' * 17, set())
     for brand in FW_QUERY_CONFIGS.keys():
       with subtests.test(brand=brand):
-        get_fw_versions(fake_socket, fake_socket, lambda obd: None, brand)
+        get_fw_versions(self.fake_can_recv, self.fake_can_send, lambda obd: None, brand)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
index 6487257bb..5b2a075ce 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
@@ -138,11 +138,11 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   @staticmethod
-  def init(CP, logcan, sendcan):
+  def init(CP, can_recv, can_send):
     # disable radar if alpha longitudinal toggled on radar-ACC car
     if CP.flags & ToyotaFlags.DISABLE_RADAR.value:
       communication_control = bytes([uds.SERVICE_TYPE.COMMUNICATION_CONTROL, uds.CONTROL_TYPE.ENABLE_RX_DISABLE_TX, uds.MESSAGE_TYPE.NORMAL])
-      disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=0, addr=0x750, sub_addr=0xf, com_cont_req=communication_control)
+      disable_ecu(can_recv, can_send, bus=0, addr=0x750, sub_addr=0xf, com_cont_req=communication_control)
 
   # returns a car.CarState
   def _update(self, c):
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/vin.py b/selfdrive/car/vin.py
index d662f9a7d..9a667f3ce 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/vin.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/vin.py
@@ -1,7 +1,6 @@
 #!/usr/bin/env python3
 import re
 
-import cereal.messaging as messaging
 from panda.python.uds import get_rx_addr_for_tx_addr, FUNCTIONAL_ADDRS
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import carlog
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.isotp_parallel_query import IsoTpParallelQuery
@@ -15,7 +14,7 @@ def is_valid_vin(vin: str):
   return re.fullmatch(VIN_RE, vin) is not None
 
 
-def get_vin(logcan, sendcan, buses, timeout=0.1, retry=2, debug=False):
+def get_vin(can_recv, can_send, buses, timeout=0.1, retry=2, debug=False):
   for i in range(retry):
     for bus in buses:
       for request, response, valid_buses, vin_addrs, functional_addrs, rx_offset in (
@@ -35,7 +34,7 @@ def get_vin(logcan, sendcan, buses, timeout=0.1, retry=2, debug=False):
           tx_addrs = [a for a in range(0x700, 0x800) if a != 0x7DF] + list(range(0x18DA00F1, 0x18DB00F1, 0x100))
 
         try:
-          query = IsoTpParallelQuery(sendcan, logcan, bus, tx_addrs, [request, ], [response, ], response_offset=rx_offset,
+          query = IsoTpParallelQuery(can_send, can_recv, bus, tx_addrs, [request, ], [response, ], response_offset=rx_offset,
                                      functional_addrs=functional_addrs, debug=debug)
           results = query.get_data(timeout)
 
@@ -63,6 +62,7 @@ def get_vin(logcan, sendcan, buses, timeout=0.1, retry=2, debug=False):
 if __name__ == "__main__":
   import argparse
   import time
+  import cereal.messaging as messaging
 
   parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description='Get VIN of the car')
   parser.add_argument('--debug', action='store_true')
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
index b25f318b4..055293f16 100755
--- a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
+++ b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
@@ -22,6 +22,7 @@ from openpilot.common.prefix import OpenpilotPrefix
 from openpilot.common.timeout import Timeout
 from openpilot.common.realtime import DT_CTRL
 from panda.python import ALTERNATIVE_EXPERIENCE
+from openpilot.selfdrive.car.card import can_comm_callbacks
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.car_helpers import get_car, interfaces
 from openpilot.system.manager.process_config import managed_processes
 from openpilot.selfdrive.test.process_replay.vision_meta import meta_from_camera_state, available_streams
@@ -356,7 +357,8 @@ def get_car_params_callback(rc, pm, msgs, fingerprint):
 
     for m in canmsgs[:300]:
       can.send(m.as_builder().to_bytes())
-    CP = get_car(can, sendcan, lambda obd: None, Params().get_bool("ExperimentalLongitudinalEnabled"), cached_params=cached_params).CP
+    can_callbacks = can_comm_callbacks(can, sendcan)
+    CP = get_car(*can_callbacks, lambda obd: None, Params().get_bool("ExperimentalLongitudinalEnabled"), cached_params=cached_params).CP
 
     if not params.get_bool("DisengageOnAccelerator"):
       CP.alternativeExperience |= ALTERNATIVE_EXPERIENCE.DISABLE_DISENGAGE_ON_GAS